Good Shower Gels?

[Exeter]

Has anyone actually run across a shower gel that doesn't contain a bunch of surfactants? I'm having a hard time finding one that I like that doesn't contain SLES and a myriad of other (supposedly) "nasty" stuff. For instance: I love the Sienna Crabtree and Evelyn scent, and I especially like being able to use the body wash in my hair. I'm not fussy about my hair and since a shampoo is just for rinsing, it does the job just fine. But it's got about every "bad" chemical you could possibly look for in a skin care product: SLES, Betaine, BHT, every paraben imaginable (though I'm not allergic to them and I've yet to read anything convincing regarding them being unsafe), AND Ammonium lauryl sulfate...why on earth would you need Sodium AND Ammonium lauryl sulfates? Sure I can just use the bar soap, but I'm afraid the ingredients will be about the same. Also I can't really get the Nomad or Sienna scent any other way (the shave cream and soap scents just don't stick around). Oh well. Even nice high dollar gels have at LEAST SLES. My absolute favorite one (the scent is beyond amazing and it feels even better, even with the SLES), Philip B's Thai Tea body wash (though I love the Nordic Wood and Santa Fe scents as well) has SLES and Betaine. Betaine isn't really a problem for me since I'm not allergic to it, but I do question the need for it as a surfactant.

Let's double this as a discussion about the ingredients I've mentioned. I'd like someone who knows more than I do to tell me about why surfactants aren't good. Are they not good in every case? They're there to eliminate oil, correct? I understand that the body needs oil, and it may not necessarily be beneficial to remove it. So my question is, where did this get started? Why would a company even want to add surfactants if they're actually not so good for cleaning your body? The other thing I don't understand is in so many cases, especially in the Philip B wash, the surfactants are followed by a long list of oils! What gives here! Are they just canceling each other out?!

for reference, here's the ingredients list for the Philip B Thai Tree wash:

Water, Honey, Sodium Laureth Sulfate, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, Disodium Laureth Sulfosuccinate, Camellia Oleifera Extract, Fragrance with Natural Components of: Lavender (Thai Black Tea Concentrate), Mandarin Orange, Juniper Berry, Lime, Cocamide MEA, Hydrolyzed Milk Protein, Glycerin, Polyquaternium 7, Glycol Stearate, Butylene Glycol, Cymbopogon Schoenanthus Oil (Lemongrass Oil), Mentha Piperita (Peppermint Oil), Zingiber Officinale (Ginger Root Oil), Citrus Aurantifolia (Lime Oil), Cymbopogon Nardus (Citronella Oil), Coconut Oil, Disodium EDTA, Methylparaben, DMDM Hydantoin, Citric Acid, Sodium Chloride

and now the C&E Sienna Body+Hair wash (yikes for some, I bet moviemanic will cringe just reading this!)

Water, Sodium Laureth Sulfate, Lauramide Dea, Disodium Laureth Sulfosuccinate (why?), Ammonium Lauryl Sulfate (double why?!), Cocamidopropyl Betaine, Propylene Glycol, Fragrance (best part ); ), PEG-120 Methyl Glucose Dioleate, Glycerin (finally something!), PEG-7 Glyceryl Cocoate, Saccharomyces Ferment, Coco-Glucoside, Glyceryl Oleate (sunflower oil, apparently), Polyquaternium-7, Panthenol, Tocopheryl Acetate, Benzophenone-4, Sodium Chloride, Citric Acid, Sodium Hydroxide, BHT, Disodium EDTA, Linalool, Dipentene, Amyl Cinnamal, Coumarin, Phenoxyethanol, Methylparaben, Ethylparaben, Propylparaben, Butylparaben, Isobutylparaben (five FIVE different parabens?! What on earth for?!)

Hope I didn't yak too much for anyone to get the idea D; Basically, just share your knowledge about supposedly harmful and non-beneficial chemcials. Hearsay is fine, but if you can, show me or at least tell me your sources.



edit: I should have looked at this thread http://www.theshaveden.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4425 before posting this! Ack! Oh well...

[JayKay]

You need all that to make enough lather to wash your entire body with just a dime sized squirt. For instance, take your loofa, put a dime sized drop of your favorite shaving cream on it, and try lathering your entire body and scrubbing down. It doesnt have all that nasty stuff, and it just wont work. If you want the natural stuff you've got to step away from the gels and go with hard soaps. Tripple milled soaps, tallow based, glycerine, whatever floats your boat. I'll start getting picky about my soap once I hear that somebodys been diagnosed with cancer or some other life altering disease due to using Leaver 2000.

[Exeter]

I just noticed my Everyman Jack Signature gel only has Sodium Coco Sulfate, which is apparently a natural alternative to the others.

edit: And don't get me wrong, I'm not the type to not use something just because it isn't 100% natural, this is more out of curiosity than need. I'm fine with using the C&E Wash I talked about above, but some of it DOES seem excessive. Do you REALLY need every paraben in the book and two or three different kinds of surfactants?

[moviemaniac]

So my question is, where did this get started? Why would a company even want to add surfactants if they're actually not so good for cleaning your body?

Same reason as everywhere. The price! Surfactants are dirt cheap, you can make nice gel-bottles with nifty designs that sell better than an old bar of soap. Always remember: 99,9% of all companies only care about money and the stock-market, the consumer is only interesting to them because he can be tricked into buying the companies stuff. So, strictly speaking, they're not interested in the customer, just in his money. Making the customer happy is not on the list of what the big companies want to achieve.

The other thing I don't understand is in so many cases, especially in the Philip B wash, the surfactants are followed by a long list of oils! What gives here! Are they just canceling each other out?!

That's the exact reason. Where you take oils away you've got to add them afterwards in order to avoid drying of the skin.

I have yet to encounter a bath gel without surfactants (there are some out there that are harmless but I'm referring to the "bad ones" here). I know there are some by Weleda and Lavera (two German companies), but I haven't tried them and I won't try them. Soap (superfatted soap) is all I need and use.

As far as C&E are concerned: Their soaps shouldn't be laden with surfactants but I'm sure you'll find preservers as parabens and/or phenoxyethanol.

And, yeah, you were right, I nearly fainted when I saw the ingredients-list of the C&E-body-wash. :eek:

[moviemaniac]

I just noticed my Everyman Jack Signature gel only has Sodium Coco Sulfate, which is apparently a natural alternative to the others.

edit: And don't get me wrong, I'm not the type to not use something just because it isn't 100% natural, this is more out of curiosity than need. I'm fine with using the C&E Wash I talked about above, but some of it DOES seem excessive. Do you REALLY need every paraben in the book and two or three different kinds of surfactants?

That sounds like an okay formula :happy088

I'm also not a synthetic=bad and natural=good guy. There are many good and bad things available from either "world".
And no, you don't need that many parabens and surfactants.

The interesting thing is this: They have to add oils to counterweight the drying effect of most surfactants. Oils can become rancid so they need preservatives. With a bar soap (unless it's extremely superfatted) you don't need any preservatives as germs and bacteria can't grow in the alcalic environmemt of the soap :happy088

[JayKay]

Oddly enough I was reading an article about bar soap being used in public restrooms that found all sorts of disgusting bacteria growing on the bar soap. It didnt mention the variety though. When it comes to bar soap I usually just buy Susies Bubbles and love the stuff. No need for the gels IMHO.

[Exeter]

I've seen Weleda around for fairly cheap, I'll have to see if any of it looks like something I'd want to use. But I'm pretty happy with what I've got. This was more just a curiosity and excuse for discussion.

[soapbuddy]

You get what you pay for.
Chemical Surfactants are inexpensive.
I will not use anything with sodium lauryl or laureth sulphate due to possible cancer causes or other diseases.

I'm aware that not all natural ingredients are good and not all chemical ingredients are bad.

Mold is natural, but I wouldn't want to use it on my skin. LOL!

I now make my own with organic ingredients. It costs a little bit more, but it's worth it.:)

[Exeter]

I will not use anything with sodium lauryl or laureth sulphate due to possible cancer causes or other diseases.

See this is something I'm curious about, where is this coming from?

[soapbuddy]

In its final report on the safety of sodium lauryl sulfate, the Journal of the American College of Toxicology notes that this ingredient has a "degenerative effect on the cell membranes because of its protein denaturing properties." What's more, the journal adds, "high levels of skin penetration may occur at even low use concentration."

Interestingly, sodium lauryl sulfate "is used around the world in clinical studies as a skin irritant," notes the journal. The publication expressed additional concerns:

Carcinogenic nitrosamines can form in the manufacturing of sodium lauryl sulfate or by its inter-reaction with other nitrogen-bearing ingredients within a formulation utilizing this ingredient.

Other studies have indicated that sodium lauryl sulfate enters and maintains residual levels in the heart, liver, lungs and brain from skin contact. This poses the question whether it could be a serious potential health threat from its use in shampoos, cleansers, and toothpastes.

Still other research has indicated sodium lauryl sulfate may be damaging to the immune system, especially within the skin. Skin layers may separate and inflame due to its protein denaturing properties.

Additional studies have found that sodium lauryl sulfate is heavily deposited on the skin surface and in the hair follicles. Damage to the hair follicle could result from such deposition.

I don't know about all of this article, but I feel better not using either ingredient. Fee free to take this with a grain of salt.

[Queen of Blades]

I can't use a shampoo with SLS in it. My scalp breaks out in ouchies.

[soapbuddy]

I can't use a shampoo with SLS in it. My scalp breaks out in ouchies.

You're not alone. A lot of people are the same way.