Suggestion on Hones

[Bill]

If you have a limited budget, you still need a decent hone. If you can only ever afford one, it's my suggestion to get a Norton 4000/8000.

That means the grit on one side is 4000 and 8000 on the other. There are several sources to get them. Shop around. I do not remember where I got mine. Might have been Classic Shaving. Maybe one of the other guys can pipe in with a good source.

I have three that I use the most... (the other 20 or so when I want to play)

Norton 220/1000
Norton 4k/8k
12000 grit stone from Japanese Woodworker's supply

[berzerkeleyan]

Bill, could you provide a recommended sequence (order, number of passes, etc.) when honing a razor, using the stones you mention above? I've seen Lynn's DVD, and know his sequence. But I was curious as to what other folks do.

[Tony Shlongini]

If you have a limited budget, you still need a decent hone. If you can only ever afford one, it's my suggestion to get a Norton 4000/8000.

That means the grit on one side is 4000 and 8000 on the other. There are several sources to get them. Shop around. I do not remember where I got mine. Might have been Classic Shaving. Maybe one of the other guys can pipe in with a good source.

I have three that I use the most... (the other 20 or so when I want to play)

Norton 220/1000
Norton 4k/8k
12000 grit stone from Japanese Woodworker's supply


I can see the 220/1000 getting a lot of use on knives, but razors???

[Scorpio]

I follow the conservative pyramid sequence and then 50 laps on the strop when the razor has an edge but not shave sharp. If the edge is somewhat dull I go for the aggressive pyramid plus 50 laps on the strop. I've read where others go on the 4k until the razor passes the HHT and then move on to the 8k. Recently I started using a Chinese polishing stone 12k. It is a slow cutter so I am still getting the hang of it.
For the most part I get a razor shave ready(for me) using the Norton combo with the pyramids and then stroping.

Raf

[Joe C]

One opinion I'll add to Bill's suggestion is to look for the 2" wide hones. They're harder to find, but work just as well, IMO, and they're a fair piece less expensive than the 3" wide ones. Depends on how you hone, I guess. Brian D'Onofrio seems to move straight up and down the hone, perpendicular to the edge, so a 3" wide one would work better for him. I use an X, so I can get by with a narrower hone. As far as what I use, I have the single grit Nortons, but I also use a Tam O' Shanter, Thuringen, and an Escher, then green chrome.

[Scorpio]

Hey Joe Glad to see you here!!

OK so after using the polishing stone what are the advantages of using green chrome? (I think you are referring to green chromiun oxide.)

Raf

[Joe C]

Hey Joe Glad to see you here!!

OK so after using the polishing stone what are the advantages of using green chrome? (I think you are referring to green chromiun oxide.)

Raf

Just gives the edge that last bit more polish, making for a smoother, more comfortable shave. And yeah, it's CrO2. I use it on a Handamerican flatbed hone, with a CrO2 on plain leather. I will occasionally use diamond paste, but I always finish up with green chrome. Produces a smoother edge, IMO.

[Bill]

I can see the 220/1000 getting a lot of use on knives, but razors???

There are times I will use the 220. That'll be another discussion. The 1000 I use all the time for those ebay specials.

I don't have a pattern. All that is too confusing for me. I just use the stones, rough to fine 'til the razors get sharp.

My process, if you could call it that, is a little different. I am not afraid to use pressure on the blade in the beginning stages. Once it is almost finished, I run about 8 to 10 light passes on my 12000, and then to the HandAmerican flatbed with the green paste.... done.

Here's the progression:


pressure (enough to flex the blade a tiny tiny tiny bit) on the 1000 until the bevel is established ~ look through a 30 power jewelers loup to check progress every 6 or so passes. (loups are on ebay for cheap)
moderate pressure still on the 4000 to take out all the 1000 scratches. monitor with same cheap 30 power loup.
moderate pressurse some more with the 8000 for about 10 passes. The entire cutting edge should be very shiny by now. Lighten up on the pressure to about 1/2 pound or slightly less, and then 5 passes with about 1/4 pound.
go to the 12000 with 1/2 pound for 8 passes or thereabouts and then lighten up to less than 1/4 pound for 5.
go to the pasted strop or pasted flatbed.With a razor having good steel, I'm done in about 15 minutes, start to finish. It is only the cheaper steels that I may have to fuss with it a little more. The sad part is that once in a while, even the great brands come up with a bad batch of steel.

I've tried the pyramid thing and it doesn't seem to accomplish much for me. I just make sure the rougher grit marks on the bevel are taken out before I go to the next higher grit.

I will also vary the position of the blade. I might make a few passes with the blade perpendicular to the hone, and then a few more at an angle. Then I make passes with the tip leading the stroke and then the heel leading. After you do a couple hundred razors, it just falls into place.

So get a couple junkers on ebay and wear out some stones.

[berzerkeleyan]

:happy096

This is fantastic information, Bill. Thanks a lot. I'm very close to getting the nerve to try honing some old razors on stones. Your post could not have come at a better time.

[Vincebell]

I was wondering were everyone went. Great info, Bill, as usual

[Queen of Blades]

Welcome to The Shave Den Vincebell!

[PalmettoB]

Welcome aboard, Vincebell.

I am about to purchase a Norton 4K/8K, and I think I will have to look Tony Miller up again for a pasted paddle strop.

[Vincebell]

Correct me if I'm wrong but the polish hone Bill is talking about, the 12K from Japan Woodworker is called a Kitiyama. I use it all the time. It's a great stone.

[xChris]

I thought it was the Chinese natural water stones being mentioned at Woodcraft:

http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=4920

$30 for an 8x2x1 stone.

[PalmettoB]

Chris, do you have one of these? I just got my Norton 4k/8k and I love it, but I wouldn't mind something to put sort of a "final" edge on the blade.

Or would I just be better off getting a Cromium Oxide pasted paddle?

[Tony Shlongini]

Correct me if I'm wrong but the polish hone Bill is talking about, the 12K from Japan Woodworker is called a Kitiyama. I use it all the time. It's a great stone.

The Kitayama is a fantastic stone, but it's an 8K. It gives a somewhat hazy polish that has been described as "misty". One of my favorites for knives.

[xChris]

Chris, do you have one of these? I just got my Norton 4k/8k and I love it, but I wouldn't mind something to put sort of a "final" edge on the blade.

Or would I just be better off getting a Cromium Oxide pasted paddle?

Yes, I do have one. I've been getting good results with it, but am still refining my own honing technique(s). On the edges that I've used it for, it really smooths out the edge -- no harshness in the edge when shaving.

[Bill]

I thought it was the Chinese natural water stones being mentioned at Woodcraft:

http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=4920

$30 for an 8x2x1 stone.

Chris...

I have that one too. It's pretty good, especially for the money. The part I like most about the hazy appearance it leaves is that you can easily tell if you are honing the entire surface of the edge. From there, you can go to other methods that will leave a polished edge.

But, this is the 12,000 grit stone I was referring to.

http://japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&pf_id=01.021.2000&dept_id=13253

[Scorpio]

After a couple of months of using the Chinese 12k from Woodcraft I really like it a lot. I get great results and once I put a few laps (75-100) I finish with the Green Chromium and Voila!!!!

for the price of $30 it is hard to beat.

Raf

[xChris]

Chris...

I have that one too. It's pretty good, especially for the money. The part I like most about the hazy appearance it leaves is that you can easily tell if you are honing the entire surface of the edge. From there, you can go to other methods that will leave a polished edge.

But, this is the 12,000 grit stone I was referring to.

http://japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&pf_id=01.021.2000&dept_id=13253

Ah ha! I wasn't aware that Shapton had a 12K. I always read about the 10K & 15K.

As a matter of fact, there's been a lot of talk about the Shaptons recently instead of the Nortons. I am definitely going to look into them when I'm ready for some more hones.

[qhsdoitall]

So, does anyone have a comparison between the Shapton's and the Norton's? Also, what the heck would you use a 30K Shapton for?

[Tony Shlongini]

So, does anyone have a comparison between the Shapton's and the Norton's? Also, what the heck would you use a 30K Shapton for?

http://www.knifeforums.com/forums/showtopic.php?tid/772925/

I've used the 30K Shapton, but wouldn't recommend it, except if your looking for an excuse to get divorced.

[qhsdoitall]

http://www.knifeforums.com/forums/showtopic.php?tid/772925/

I've used the 30K Shapton, but wouldn't recommend it, except if your looking for an excuse to get divorced.

Thanks for the link. Ya, at $475 I would call it a case for divorce. The Shaptons are not cheap.

[Hawkeye5]

Dr. Chris Moss seems to think highly of the 30k Shapton.
Way out of my price range, so I'll stick with a coticle or thuringen. They are expensive enough.